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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0000860supertux-contrib[supertux] Levels and Worldmapspublic2011-09-20 09:212013-03-22 15:14
Reporterhume2 
Assigned Tolmh 
PrioritynormalSeverityfeatureReproducibilityN/A
StatusresolvedResolutionfixed 
PlatformOSOS Version
Summary0000860: A new worldmap for add-ons: Hume's rainbow cave
DescriptionAdmins, can you add my worldmap to add-ons? If you can, then add my worldmap to add-ons.
TagsAttachedFiles
Attached Fileszip file icon hume_rainbow_cave_v1.zip [^] (176,312 bytes) 2011-09-20 09:24
zip file icon hume_rainbow_cave_v2.zip [^] (178,731 bytes) 2011-10-05 11:23
zip file icon hume_rc_v3.zip [^] (176,404 bytes) 2011-12-22 11:17
png file icon frozen_floors.png [^] (869,198 bytes) 2011-12-29 12:51
png file icon Screenshot.png [^] (193,505 bytes) 2012-01-04 12:20


? file icon frozen_floors.stl [^] (183,277 bytes) 2012-01-07 16:46

- Relationships
related to 0000729closed New level: rat maze 

-  Notes
(0002720)
hume2 (administrator)
2011-09-20 10:32

The code usefull in level "Bonus levels gate" is: 567418
(0002721)
mol1 (reporter)
2011-09-21 05:52

Why not ... I like the level 'unlocked achievements'
But a rule of level building isn't used in the first real level, before the crystallo ...
(0002722)
hume2 (administrator)
2011-09-21 08:05

If you thing very dangerous spikes before bonus crystal, I know that. The way to bonus crystal shoulds be hard. Anyway, I can build levels how i want.
(0002724)
ctdabomb (administrator)
2011-09-21 16:20

Nice levels. I haven't gotten very far yet but what I have played so far has been great. There is an annoying bug though, when you are under the forest tilemap and restrart the game the tilemap isn't faded until you move. Also, maybe you can put something in the worldmap so you know what color you are in.
(0002725)
semajD (reporter)
2011-09-21 16:37

Good job hume, I really liked playing these levels. You did a good job on the worldmap, even though there are not any cave tiles. This worldmap is worthy of being added to the add-ons, once it is complete. I will let you know of any bugs I find.
(0002731)
lmh (administrator)
2011-09-23 15:28

This set of levels was much more enjoyable to me than the previous (if perhaps a bit repetitive at times). I also thought that they looked much better, even though some of the later levels used tiles that clashed a bit.

I noticed a couple of bugs:
-there were some graphical glitches in the background near the exit of the level with the white crystal.
-on the first white level I got smashed by the falling platform on my way back from the bonus block, you might want to consider using a unisolid moving tilemap instead (although now that I think about it, that might not be possible without the most recent revisions available in the SVN version).
-the already mentioned issue of restarting the worldmap and the top layer does not fade until Tux moves; you should be able to fix this using a state variable which is set when Tux enters the cave. Then an initialization script can be used on the world map that will set the alpha value to the correct setting. This would also eliminate the need to use a ton of special tiles as a correction.

There were four levels I was not a fan of and would suggest either removing them or considerably reworking them:
-the vomiting platforms, especially since they tend to hit each other and push around/kill Tux.
-the maze, great idea, but I didn't care for this level the first time and I like it even less as one that I have to play in the normal sequence. It's just too much. Even after opening the stl file and generating a map, it took more time than I really cared to devote to it. Removing the lava might help (which looks bad having the different styles anyway), or maybe the ability to only need to hit each button only once ever. Even some sort of reward at the end would make it much better.
-frozen floors, admittedly this level might be much worse in SVN then it is in the snapshot, but a small slip toward the top results in having to pass the majority of the level again and in some areas that's not possible due to the unstable tiles. This can be very obnoxious and time consuming, perhaps use some additional flooring or just use some spikes to put Tux out of his misery.
-zeekling jumping, this was a truly awful level. Maybe due to the combination of bouncing off zeeklings and over spikes. Remember that the spikes used are actually squares when interacting with Tux, even just grazing the corner of the tile where the graphic shows open space results in damage. This makes them feel buggy to players when used in areas requiring precision movement. They are much more appropriate in situations where one isn't tempted to cut corners.

I also thought there were a couple of things you could do to enhance the graphical appeal of the set:
-obviously the worldmap doesn't look like a cave, have you considered making your own tiles instead? Even a crude recoloring of the tiles currently used would be a great enhancement.
-also with the worldmap it might be nice to use some two-way teleporters back to the achievements which are unlocked once a color region is completed. Alright that's not about graphics so much, but it's on my mind since the map is so large and I was talking about it anyway.
-add some hints for some of the secret areas, some of them were pretty hard to find. The strategy often came down to "shoot I missed the secret area, better go back and systematically jump against walls until I find it." It's really rather rewarding when you can spot some minor inconsistency and discover the area on merit rather than random chance. The "tell" for the crystals was done rather well, try thinking of ways to hint at more of the secret areas.
-scroll more of the backgrounds like you did in zeekling jumping (which is the one level I would suggest not doing that). It will make the environments more dynamic and less sterile.

Despite most of my comments above, I really did enjoy the set. I think the implementation of the achievements was much cleaner than in your earlier set, and the collection of the crystals was a great addition. The difficulty level was good (for me) and I never felt really confused about what I was suppose to do. Overall I felt it was really rather well done, good job.
(0002741)
hume2 (administrator)
2011-09-25 22:03

You are true. These problems can be sorted to three categories: Mistakes of SuperTux and mistakes of level-editor. I'm using editor for ST 0.3.0. I can't download a newer editor. This can be a mistake of ST devel team. They probably can't relase a full editor for ST 0.3.3 and only the editor for ST 0.3.0 is avaible for me. Maybe you are wonder, how i can use objects like icecrusher etc. I must use a text editor and adjust it. I can't do it in every levels, because it's boring for me. The third category is mistakes which is only features of levels. The background in levels "Zeekling jumping" and "The main hall" is scroling, because the room is big. Other levels are only thin passages. Other problems belonging to this category are: squishing platforms, lava in the maze etc.
(0002774)
hume2 (administrator)
2011-10-05 11:24

I uploaded next wersion, besause I forgot on licences.
(0002778)
hume2 (administrator)
2011-10-10 21:42

Play only the secound version please.
(0002900)
lmh (administrator)
2011-12-21 11:41

I just found that the second version doesn't seem to work (recognizes the zip file but doesn't show in menus). I haven't tried to find out why yet, but thought you might want to look at it.
(0002906)
hume2 (administrator)
2011-12-22 11:18

I found the bug. Try the third version. Anyway, you cough extract it.
(0002914)
farghiroi (reporter)
2011-12-28 02:33

hello! i need help, because i don't finish the level " more than one room ". Some video, please?
(0002920)
gmolleda (reporter)
2011-12-29 12:50

I have played a lot of levels in this worldmap, I see that the level "Fortress maze" is identical to rat-maze in the Hume's Islands, I think that is better change the map (yes is more work) or remove the level rat maze in the Hume's Island.

Now I can't finish the "frozen floors" level, I don't reach the platform to finish (see frozen_floors.png file attached).
(0002921)
gmolleda (reporter)
2011-12-29 23:12

Done frozen floors, no problem.Uffff.
(0002923)
farghiroi (reporter)
2011-12-30 12:15

help me...i can't finish the level " frozen floors " :(
(0002931)
hume2 (administrator)
2011-12-31 07:33

There aren't any sectet tricks for finish those levels expect one in level "More than one room". Hint for level "More than one room": The darking effect is a lightmap effect. No videos are required!!
(0002938)
farghiroi (reporter)
2012-01-02 04:34

hello! Gmolleda, how you can finish the level " frozen floors "? i can't finish this level. Please show me some image, or video. Thank you very much!
(0002940)
ctdabomb (administrator)
2012-01-02 07:44

farghiroi maybe you should get the ST editor and use that to figure out how to beat the levels
(0002941)
farghiroi (reporter)
2012-01-02 10:07

i don't know what you say.. i have the same problem like gmolleda: " I don't reach the platform to finish ". thanks.
(0002943)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-02 21:50

How stupid problem.
(0002944)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-02 21:51

Did you try to collect all coins?
(0002945)
farghiroi (reporter)
2012-01-03 00:01

yes, i collect all coins, why?
(0002949)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-03 11:04

And did you collect all coins in level "frozen floors"? There are 69 coins.
(0002950)
farghiroi (reporter)
2012-01-03 12:52

yes, i think yes. i found also the secret zone. anybody wants help me, please?
(0002951)
ctdabomb (administrator)
2012-01-03 13:50

try using the editor to figure out how
(0002952)
farghiroi (reporter)
2012-01-03 14:01

i don't know how?! i don't know what is this?
(0002953)
ctdabomb (administrator)
2012-01-03 15:04

what part of the level are you having issues with? i know it is a crazy hard level, but with some skill, a lot of patience, and some luck you can beat it.
(0002954)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-03 21:40

HINT: The platform, which you are trying to reach is unreachable.
(0002955)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-03 21:43

I thing, it's unreachable from the side, from which side you are trying it.
(0002957)
farghiroi (reporter)
2012-01-04 00:17

and what is the way/ side?
(0002959)
gmolleda (reporter)
2012-01-04 05:52

Hi Hume, I think that you could put a function md5 for remove the codes to bonus in code of world.
(0002960)
farghiroi (reporter)
2012-01-04 10:35

hello! I can't finish this level ( frozen floors ), pleaaaassseeee help meeeeeee!!!! Gmolleda, how can you finish this level?
(0002962)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-04 11:33

ctdabomb: Have you finished the level "frozen floors"? Are you agree that farghiori's problem is very stupid?
(0002966)
ctdabomb (administrator)
2012-01-04 12:19

since people keep having issues with the level "frozen floors" I posted a screenshot showing how to beat the level.
(0002967)
lmh (administrator)
2012-01-04 12:32

Well I've finished "frozen floors" and I would not say the problem is stupid. The upper portion of the level simply has a poor layout. It's very disorienting upon first encounter- it is unclear that the exit must be approached from the left (at first), and the intended path beyond the dispensers is both ambiguous and out of view for the default screen settings. It will inherently cause confusion.

This is why the developers have come up with level guidelines. Remember that SuperTux was designed to be fun, not challenging. The main player base will be novice gamers so when you deviate significantly from the level guidelines like this you're going to have people get frustrated. Personally I think you should revisit the design of this level.
(0002968)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-04 21:54

Really? It's very stupid, if somebody don't know, the coin arrow pointing left means, Tux shoulds go left. The somebody can be also a novice. Every normal players know, what arrow means. More of people knows, if they don't know what to do, they should try what is possible and if they don't know it still then they should looking for advices. The arrow is clear pointing on one of possibility. Lmh made more hard levels, often harder than my levels and he said, my levels are hard.
(0002969)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-04 21:58

correction of note 0002968:
Really? It's very stupid, if somebody don't know, the coin arrow pointing left means, Tux shoulds go left. The somebody can be also a novice. Every normal people know, what arrow means. More of people knows, if they don't know what to do, they should try what is possible and if they don't know it still then they should looking for advices. The arrow is clear pointing on one of possibility. Lmh made more hard levels, often harder than my levels and he said, my levels are hard.
(0002977)
lmh (administrator)
2012-01-07 16:44

Ok, bottom line is that it is inappropriate to call someone stupid for getting confused in your level.

First, there wasn't even enough information to know where the player was stuck. You asked if they had received all the coins but most players are not going to know that unless they have finished the level and see the level stats. In addition, there seems to be a language difference resulting in further confusion. So really you don't even know if the coin arrow was the spot where the player was stuck.

Second, even if they got to the arrow, it's conceivable that they grabbed the coins without paying attention to their specific arrangement due to being preoccupied with the badguys dropping on their head. Once the coins are gone, then there is no indication on where to go.

Third, the arrow itself is somewhat ambiguous. It points left, but there are two paths: an apparent one over the dispenser and requiring a trick jump (that not many are willing to take the time to perfect), and the one you expect people to use which is a blind jump. If people cannot see the path don't expect them know that it is there.

Instead of getting defensive/angry about criticisms and requests for aid, try to understand the problem a little more and take it as an opportunity to improve your levels. I'll upload a copy of the level with just a few minor tweaks which would probably go a long way to clearing up any layout confusion. The main gameplay is unchanged and it only took a few minutes to do.
-there's a stationary platform after the last spring board so players can pause and see that they obviously cannot make it to the exit from that side
-there are platforms to make it less likely that a player falls to the bottom floor so they do not have to choose between suicide and repeating a large chunk of the level (alleviates annoyance more than confusion)
-permanent signs indicate the path
-instead of the arrow, the coins make a trail clearly indicating the intended direction of travel

It's naive to think your levels are going to be perfect on the first build and without feedback. What is obvious to you may not be to someone else. You don't necessarily need to make changes every time someone gets stuck or confused, but if you can do something minor to make things more enjoyable why not take the time to do it? Even if it's just a hint like: "look closely at the configuration of the coins". There's no need to say things like the "problem is very stupid" which is really insulting and humiliating a thing to do to someone frustrated enough to ask for help.
(0002978)
vovin (reporter)
2012-01-07 22:19

Thanks for the last code in "Bonus levels gate" :)) I enjoyed your worldmap very much!
(0002979)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-08 02:38

Lmh, thing, what you want. I thing, it's stupid. This is warning for next players which are going to write their issues: If you don't know, what to do, try everything (I mean really everything!) possible, until you do the level. If you really don't know what to do, and you tried everything possible, then you can ask. I am very frustrated when someone gets stuck on trivial issues.
(0002980)
ctdabomb (administrator)
2012-01-09 07:24

when they ask, it might not be a trivial issue for them. remember hume2, some people a just beginners at the game, so don't be to hard on them.
(0002981)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-01-09 21:50

The coin arrow is pointing on one possibly way, and I said, they shoud try everything possible and they didn't this. When the arrow gone, the way is still here.
(0003163)
hermes (reporter)
2012-03-07 10:50

hello! i need help, because i can't finish the level "in the forest again"
(0003164)
ctdabomb (administrator)
2012-03-07 12:08

can you please be more specific?
like where you die? did you run out of coins? what version of the game?
stuff like that helps a lot with us helping you.
(0003170)
hume2 (administrator)
2012-03-10 01:16

hermes: Are you sure, the level "in the forest again" is in "Hume's rainbow cave"? This level is in "Hume's islands". Visit bug 0000748 and be more specific!
(0003223)
Austin (reporter)
2012-07-17 05:29

Hume Please Help Me! I got to side 24 in Octachoral Test and then was stuck there with no way to beat the level! Please tell me what I did wrong!

Also the Fortress Maze level is really annoying and boring and I don't even want to play it.
(0003224)
Austin (reporter)
2012-07-17 05:37

BTW I killed both willowisps, was that bad?
(0003225)
Austin (reporter)
2012-07-17 05:48

Never Mind, I beat it, but I might suggest not using willowisps, they usually come with negative connotations, and I try to avoid them.
(0003251)
lmh (administrator)
2012-12-20 13:57

Accessible via the Addon Manager in GIT revision 947098af8085
(0003283)
ila1000 (reporter)
2013-02-19 12:13

i cant finish "more than one room". Can you tell, how can i do this? please!! i out of my mind with this level..
(0003284)
lmh (administrator)
2013-02-20 12:47

To finish "More than one room", enter the lower room after the bell. When inside, you will need to grab the invincibility star and run through the spikes. There is a second star, which is best to let bounce ahead of you until the first one is about to wear off. Then grab the second star and continue to run through the spikes. The lights will go out, but don't worry. Just keep running and they'll come back on. Eventually you come to a spot with a ton of "?" blocks with fireflowers in them and a door that is blocked off by magic blocks. Open as many fireflowers as you can with the last bit of invincibility- but don't grab them. You will need them to stay alive until the lights go off. Then you have to make a blind jump to the door (magic blocks will not be solid). Through the door is the exit.
(0003294)
ila1000 (reporter)
2013-03-22 15:10

can you help me? How much time I must survive in "Platforms bringing badguys" to finsh level? or how can I finish this level?

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2011-09-20 09:21 hume2 New Issue
2011-09-20 09:24 hume2 File Added: hume_rainbow_cave_v1.zip
2011-09-20 10:32 hume2 Note Added: 0002720
2011-09-21 05:52 mol1 Note Added: 0002721
2011-09-21 08:05 hume2 Note Added: 0002722
2011-09-21 16:20 ctdabomb Note Added: 0002724
2011-09-21 16:37 semajD Note Added: 0002725
2011-09-23 15:28 lmh Note Added: 0002731
2011-09-25 22:03 hume2 Note Added: 0002741
2011-10-05 11:23 hume2 File Added: hume_rainbow_cave_v2.zip
2011-10-05 11:24 hume2 Note Added: 0002774
2011-10-10 21:42 hume2 Note Added: 0002778
2011-10-23 09:50 sik0fewl Project supertux => supertux-contrib
2011-12-21 11:41 lmh Note Added: 0002900
2011-12-22 11:17 hume2 File Added: hume_rc_v3.zip
2011-12-22 11:18 hume2 Note Added: 0002906
2011-12-28 02:33 farghiroi Note Added: 0002914
2011-12-29 12:50 gmolleda Note Added: 0002920
2011-12-29 12:51 gmolleda File Added: frozen_floors.png
2011-12-29 23:12 gmolleda Note Added: 0002921
2011-12-30 12:15 farghiroi Note Added: 0002923
2011-12-31 07:33 hume2 Note Added: 0002931
2012-01-02 04:34 farghiroi Note Added: 0002938
2012-01-02 07:44 ctdabomb Note Added: 0002940
2012-01-02 10:07 farghiroi Note Added: 0002941
2012-01-02 21:50 hume2 Note Added: 0002943
2012-01-02 21:51 hume2 Note Added: 0002944
2012-01-03 00:01 farghiroi Note Added: 0002945
2012-01-03 11:04 hume2 Note Added: 0002949
2012-01-03 12:52 farghiroi Note Added: 0002950
2012-01-03 13:50 ctdabomb Note Added: 0002951
2012-01-03 14:01 farghiroi Note Added: 0002952
2012-01-03 15:04 ctdabomb Note Added: 0002953
2012-01-03 21:40 hume2 Note Added: 0002954
2012-01-03 21:43 hume2 Note Added: 0002955
2012-01-04 00:17 farghiroi Note Added: 0002957
2012-01-04 05:52 gmolleda Note Added: 0002959
2012-01-04 10:35 farghiroi Note Added: 0002960
2012-01-04 11:01 ctdabomb Note Added: 0002961
2012-01-04 11:33 hume2 Note Added: 0002962
2012-01-04 11:35 ctdabomb Note Added: 0002963
2012-01-04 12:19 ctdabomb Note Added: 0002966
2012-01-04 12:20 ctdabomb File Added: Screenshot.png
2012-01-04 12:32 lmh Note Added: 0002967
2012-01-04 21:54 hume2 Note Added: 0002968
2012-01-04 21:58 hume2 Note Added: 0002969
2012-01-07 16:44 lmh Note Added: 0002977
2012-01-07 16:46 lmh File Added: frozen_floors.stl
2012-01-07 22:19 vovin Note Added: 0002978
2012-01-08 02:38 hume2 Note Added: 0002979
2012-01-09 07:24 ctdabomb Note Added: 0002980
2012-01-09 21:50 hume2 Note Added: 0002981
2012-01-24 13:17 lmh Relationship added related to 0000729
2012-03-02 09:13 hume2 Note Added: 0003156
2012-03-02 09:14 hume2 Note Deleted: 0003156
2012-03-07 10:50 hermes Note Added: 0003163
2012-03-07 12:08 ctdabomb Note Added: 0003164
2012-03-10 01:16 hume2 Note Added: 0003170
2012-03-19 14:20 ctdabomb Note Deleted: 0002961
2012-03-19 14:20 ctdabomb Note Deleted: 0002963
2012-07-17 05:29 Austin Note Added: 0003223
2012-07-17 05:37 Austin Note Added: 0003224
2012-07-17 05:48 Austin Note Added: 0003225
2012-09-07 13:43 mathnerd314 Relationship added child of 0000946
2012-09-08 05:18 superdev Tag Attached: AttachedFiles
2012-12-20 13:57 lmh Note Added: 0003251
2012-12-20 13:57 lmh Status new => resolved
2012-12-20 13:57 lmh Resolution open => fixed
2012-12-20 13:57 lmh Assigned To => lmh
2013-02-19 12:13 ila1000 Note Added: 0003283
2013-02-20 12:47 lmh Note Added: 0003284
2013-03-22 15:10 ila1000 Note Added: 0003294
2013-03-22 15:14 ila1000 Issue Monitored: ila1000


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